JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. spent today testifying on Capitol Hill, explaining President Trump's budget proposal for the Department of Health and Human Services for next year. NPR's Selena Simmons-Duffin watched many hours of hearings today - one in the House, one in the Senate - and is here to help us understand it all. Hi there.
SELENA SIMMONS-DUFFIN, BYLINE: Hi, Juana.
SUMMERS: So, Selena, I know the topic was supposed to be the president's 2026 budget, and yet, I understand many other issues came up. Tell us more.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Oh, yeah, lots of issues - so Kennedy's moves on autism and vaccines came up. So did the measles outbreak in West Texas and the 20,000-some staff that has been fired or taken buyouts from HHS. There were some fiery exchanges, and at the beginning of Kennedy's statement in the Senate hearing this afternoon, he was interrupted by protesters who were escorted out.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: The budget I'm presenting today supports these goals and reflects...
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: RFK kills people with AIDS. RFK...
(SOUNDBITE OF GAVEL BANGING)
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: The protesters were saying, RFK kills people with AIDS.
SUMMERS: Wow, that's remarkable. OK, Selena, what did you learn from Kennedy today?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Well, one thing is that Kennedy said Elon Musk and his team developed the blueprint for those cuts, the 20,000 people who are - who have left the agency. And then he implemented the plan with an ability to override things. He mentioned he prevented Head Start from being cut, for example. That's an early child care program. Kennedy did seem a bit fuzzy on the specifics of what actually was cut and how many of those cuts have affected services. So many issues that lawmakers mentioned - like delays in payments to community groups and clinical trial issues - he said he had to look into things and get back to lawmakers.
He did not have a lot of clarity about who was fired at HHS and why and what portion of those fired might be brought back. Here is an exchange Kennedy had with Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey. Kim said he had talked to a fire captain who worked at ground zero and was upset about HHS cutting the World Trade Center Health Program.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
ANDY KIM: Why was the staff cut for this program? What are we to expect going forward?
KENNEDY: I restored the staff to that program.
KIM: Why was it cut to start with?
KENNEDY: It was - you know, it was part of the overall budget cuts.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Kennedy said the time it would have taken to prevent mistakes like this would have allowed inertia to set in. The agency would have remained too big and unable to help the American population get healthier, which he says is his big goal.
SUMMERS: OK, let me ask you this. The issue of vaccines was a huge issue during Kennedy's confirmation. How did that play out today?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Well, the chair of the Senate HELP Committee, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana - he did not make vaccines a big part of his questioning. I was watching for that. But another senator, Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, did, and it got contentious. Here is some of that exchange.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
CHRIS MURPHY: Are you actually still recommending people get the vaccine, or are you not?
KENNEDY: Senator, if I advise you to swim in a lake that I knew there to be alligators in, wouldn't you want me to tell you there were alligators in it?
MURPHY: So are you recommending the measles vaccine or not?
KENNEDY: What I've said, and what I said in...
MURPHY: It doesn't sound like you are, if that's...
KENNEDY: Are you going let me answer, or are you going to keep interrupting?
MURPHY: Are you, or are you not?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Kennedy was asked several times in the House hearing and in the Senate hearing about the measles vaccine in particular, and he did not clearly endorse it. He instead said that he didn't think people should be getting their medical advice from him.
SUMMERS: Well, Selena, did it seem like lawmakers are going to push back on the direction that Kennedy is taking the department?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Kennedy got a lot of pushback from Democrats, and he got some tough questions from Republican lawmakers - and of course, they hold the majority in both the House and the Senate. Several Republicans seem to - really concerned about the plan to cut back on biomedical research. You know, lawmakers from Oklahoma and Maine, for instance, brought this up. That funding has been a huge economic driver in those communities. But the picture Kennedy kept painting is that NIH has been investing in the wrong places, not doing quality science. And in general, Kennedy seems like he's standing...
SUMMERS: OK.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: ...Behind the huge sweeping changes to his agency.
SUMMERS: NPR's Selena Simmons-Duffin, thank you.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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