SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Tomorrow - November 1 - is the day that federal food assistance will be drastically cut or reduced for tens of millions of people across the United States. The loss of SNAP benefits would be just the latest casualty of a federal government shutdown that has now gone on for a month.
Senate Democrats and the Trump administration remain dug in, and as federal workers go without paychecks and now people will begin to go without critical food assistance, there's been some talk from some lawmakers about more narrowly targeted bills to keep specific parts of government funding flowing. Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski has been part of those talks as well as others, as she often is, and joins us now. Hi, Senator.
LISA MURKOWSKI: Hey. How are you this afternoon?
DETROW: Let's start with this. SNAP is a broad program. Something like 66,000 Alaskans rely on it. What are you telling your constituents about what to expect and why those benefits are going away?
MURKOWSKI: Well, everyone has been watching the news of this prolonged shutdown. They see these looming deadlines. It has been well advertised that SNAP benefits would run out at the end of this month. And so my effort has been, let's get this government open. Let's make sure that not only SNAP benefits are paid, but that our military are paid, our Coast Guard are paid, our federal workers, our air traffic controllers.
But we are sitting here on the day before these benefits are due to be paid out, and we're told by the secretary that the well is dry. So it is, I think, a dire situation. You mentioned the number in Alaska. Over 66,000 Alaskans rely on SNAP benefits. Around the country, it's over 12% of the population that rely on SNAP benefits.
DETROW: Yep.
MURKOWSKI: Forty-one million people - this is significant, and this is real harm to real people.
DETROW: I want to talk about the more narrow bills to just fund SNAP, the broader state of negotiations. But first, I want to ask this - and this is tied to a federal court case that is being decided right now - this question of whether the U.S. Department of Agriculture could be funding SNAP right now with contingency funding. We have seen the Trump administration move money to keep paying members of the military, for instance. First of all, do you believe the administration has the power to keep SNAP going through the weekend?
MURKOWSKI: Well, they do have contingency funds, and we have asked very specifically about the ability to spend those contingency funds to help pay out SNAP benefits or at least partial. Again, we have seen coming out of the USDA and the secretary of agriculture the statement that that will not be forthcoming.
I have seen different statements indicating that these contingency funds need to be reserved for disasters. We just had a disaster in Alaska. And so for those SNAP recipients in Alaska who have suffered this disaster, yeah, we want to make sure that they have some level of assistance or relief there.
But I do think it is - it's important to recognize that just this afternoon, the courts did come out with a ruling ordering the Trump administration to pay for food stamps during this shutdown, saying that they must distribute aid using what they're calling a set of emergency funds. I don't know what that is and where that might come from.
DETROW: And my understanding is at minimum, that wouldn't begin until Monday. So I think either way, we're looking...
MURKOWSKI: Yeah.
DETROW: ...At the weekend without these benefits.
MURKOWSKI: Well, and keep in mind that when you have a lapse in programs, oftentimes you will see a gap there. This is why I felt it was so important that we not get into this place in the first place...
DETROW: Well...
MURKOWSKI: ...Not be in a situation where we were actually going to see these benefits not be able to be paid out and these individuals left hanging and wondering how they're going to feed their family.
DETROW: Let's just zoom out then for a moment because the Trump White House is not negotiating. Senate Democrats are saying that they will not take any vote to reopen the government until there's a guarantee on extending these health care credits. You are one of the, you know, at times it seems like dwindling members of the Senate who are having conversations on both sides of the aisle. Do you see any clear path forward, or even beginning of a path forward, at this point in time?
MURKOWSKI: Yes. Yes. And it's not as if we're just now starting to define a path. There has been a good number of folks on both sides of the aisle that have engaged in good, constructive dialogue about the ways that we get through this shutdown, what it's going to look like. There are good, constructive conversations that are happening. They have been proceeding. They are occurring now. And...
DETROW: Is there a most likely path? I know negotiations can change quickly, but is there a most likely path? Is it a short-term spending bill? Is it a guarantee of a future vote? Like, what do you think is the most likely way to...
MURKOWSKI: I...
DETROW: ...Get moving again?
MURKOWSKI: I think you're going to see an effort to ensure that we start moving on our appropriations bills that we have already moved through the full committee. Keep in mind, we wouldn't be talking about a SNAP issue if we had been able to enact the agriculture appropriations bill into law. It's already moved through the committee. It just needs to be conferenced, and this wouldn't be an issue at all. So whether it is funding for the military, let's get the defense appropriations bill through. If it's funding for air traffic controllers, let's get the appropriations bill through.
So I hope you're going to see a path where we are advancing our appropriations bills through the process here in the Senate, through the conference that we will have with the House - an opportunity for us to address, as the Senate, the ACA premium tax credits and the expiration that we see on that at the end of this year. And so that is obviously part of the mix.
The bill that we have been voting on from the House is an extension through the 21 of November. That's not going to be sufficient time for us. So how far do we move that towards the end of the year is another subject of debate. But there's...
DETROW: What's your confidence level this is done by the next first of the month, December 1?
MURKOWSKI: My confidence level on this - that it is done by December 1 - is very high.
DETROW: All right. That is Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. Thank you so much.
MURKOWSKI: OK, thanks so much, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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